Last year, I had the privilege of interviewing Shirley Le from Sweatshop, a literacy movement based in Western Sydney, about her debut novel Funny Ethnics. I was excited to see other Sweatshop writers in the Sydney Writers’ Festival line-up. I was lucky enough to have the opportunity to speak with Victor after his first event at the festival. We talked about his inspiration behind his short story, ‘One day, under my Troye Sivan Banksia’, how he came to be a part of Sweatshop, and a little about his upcoming short story.

Victor Guan Yi Zhou is a Cantonese-Australian emerging writer who grew up on Dharug land and graduated from The University of Sydney. His creative works have been showcased in Voiceworks, Sydney Environment Institute, and First Draft Gallery. Victor’s short story, ‘One day, under my Troye Sivan Banksia’, was published in Povo. 

Hi, how are you? 

Good. How are you?

Doing alright. I was having nerves about this but then after I waited for a while they just went away.

Oh, that’s good. [laugh] So it paid off, waiting for an hour and a half.

It was fine, I wrote some stuff down and I was just like, “is this journalling? Maybe. Maybe I am meditating.” It's fine.

First of all, congratulations on your new short story, ‘One day, under my Troye Sivan Banksia.’ The strained familial relations in your short story is highly relatable with the narrator’s abrasive honesty. I really liked it; it was like a breath of fresh air.

I particularly liked how you threaded manifestation with the prayers of the dead because I used to do that at home as well. Was it an intentional choice to have four crystals in the character’s smile when the phonetic sound of 4 in Cantonese has the double meaning of ‘to die’?

Oh, cool. No, but I love that. I love the interpretation.

Okay, so heading to the question, I wanted to ask, what was the inspiration behind, ‘One day, under my Troye Sivan Banksia,’ with that in mind?

Yeah. So you know how you said you also do ancestor worship. That's what actually inspired it. I remember walking into my grandma one day at her apartment. She was on all fours and worshipping to her dead grandpa. “Please give my son, please give my grandson some money.” And also, you know TikToks and how it’s like, “If you like this video, you would get $10,000.” And I’m like, “I want $10,000!” so I’m liking them. My friends have various manifestation methods like someone would write on a note and then they’ll put it in a pot plant. As the plant grows, maybe their dreams will come around.

And I think that's so pathetically funny [laugh] because it's happening at a very specific point in time. We live in Sydney, there's a cost-of-living crisis and these people are sort of doing things that remind me of new age religion. It's not a community organised religion. It's a very particular people doing very highly curated, highly individualistic ritual practices that get to their financial goals.

It reflects the individualism of neoliberal individualism and how everyone’s got their head down and is working to try to get the house, which is like an impossible dream almost. And how, through these manifestation practices, they're aligning themselves materially, mentally, symbolically to this goal. And it's sort of this pathetic way of just sustaining their life, and that really is pathetically funny to me. [laugh]. That's my inspiration.

I kind of love that. That's real, that's real. Also, when I was reading it, I thought of Julie Koh’s ‘C is for Cockroach,’ where the main character has a psychotic break and goes to China into a cockroach retreat where random people — everyone — acts like a cockroach and lives in filth but it's all highly curated. And then she comes back into the city and says, “I experienced this higher plane of existence,” and it's like, “no, you had a mental breakdown, you went on a cockroach retreat.” And I’ll say this later but your pop culture references don't feel hammy. They don't feel forced, they feel organic and real, and I really like that.

Thank you.

And that was a fantastic answer. I really liked how you wove all these different personal aspects through your life and you're just like, “pathetically funny.” Could you tell us a little bit about how ‘One day, under my Troye Sivan Banksia,’ came to be published in Povo 2024 and what was the experience like?

Hmm. So, I write for Sweatshop. And I remember this was in 2020. I didn't do any creative writing. It was at the tail end of 2020. I'd read a piece that I prepared because it's a rite of passage. I read it and then the Sweatshop writers were like, “it's dogshit.” [laugh] Yeah.

How did that feel to be told that? 

I sort of loved that! [laugh] Because you don't get told—I personally never really got told my writing was dogshit. And on reflection, it was quite dogshit.

I'm glad that you had that reaction instead of being like, “No, my work’s great, you guys don’t see it.” You see that sometimes and it’s not great.

Yeah. Yeah, they called it dogshit and then in those three years since then—2-3 years since then—I've been learning and writing and listening with Sweatshop.

So, someone will read and I’ll listen. The writers or the coordinators ask and push me, “what do you like about this story?” And then I answer, maybe it's one or two words, and then they’ll push me again. And I get to know what I like, what I don't like.

And I come into voice; I learned how to be critical of literature and writing. And that really reflects on how Sweatshop is really inspired by Bell Hooks and her work—the late bell hooks. How she talks about coming to voice as a way for, not just reading as reading, but reading as a way to unpack social reality, or my inner and outer world.

And so, Sweatshop has given me the tools for me to unpack my inner and outer worlds. So to answer the question then, this was my first story published with Sweatshop ever, and so that felt like a culmination of all that work over those three years of listening, of writing, of refining and coming into voice.

That's really lovely. I'm so glad that you had that, and I'm really glad that you were open and receptive to having your work be called dogshit. And you were like, “You know what? It is. And you know what? I'm going to stay and come back and build up those foundational skills of being critical,” because that forces you to be open to rejection and failure. That's really good that you built up from that. 

Yeah, yeah. Keep on going. Keep on keeping up.

Your work combines the disaffection with modern life, pop culture referencing that reads true rather than cringe, and an authorial voice two steps left of the self with the sincerity that conveys an emotional truth hard enough to core. It's a distinct voice, aided by the digital elements you utilise in some of your early work. As a writer, who or what are some of your greatest creative influences and all sources of inspiration in general?

Besides Sweatshop, it would probably be food. Someone in Sweatshop pointed out that all my stories have food in it. This one had corn, which is my favourite, favourite, all time vegetable. I just think it's so versatile. It can be sweet, savoury and various cultures use it. So I just love the versatility of that vegetable. I also cook, cooking is my hobby besides bouldering and writing. Yeah, my story with First Draft is called ‘Guts’ and it's about sardines. And then—  

Oh, I read it, it was great! I really liked it.

Oh cool!

I believe it was with First Draft? I really liked it because you had very visceral descriptions. It keeps on repeating a refrain with some particular phrases and it's within the very stencilled lines of being in an office and then the character, in real time, realising “oh, this is going to be just seen as office gossip and nobody's gonna really care.” And he goes to the fish markets again and he thinks of, I believe Spanish or Italian?

Yeah, Spanish.

He thinks of the Spanish TikTok guy and he just thinks of him again. And all of your work describes things in a way where you're using all the same language, right? But you're combining them in a way that is just like, “Oh, this is the same but I'm reading it and it feels like something different.” I don't know if that makes sense, but it feels fresh when you describe things, even though they're like mundane things. Sorry to interrupt you!

Oh no, that’s okay. I'm so glad you read it.

It’s great! I found your mom dancing really cute. 

Oh my god, do you know that's not actually her face? It's an AI.

Oh yeah, I saw that. Some of your earlier stuff has you but you've morphed your face with AI and that threw me off.

Yeah. Yeah.

It feels like very early Internet.

Oh, and my upcoming story with Sweatshop.

Ooh.

I don't think I can announce what it is, but it's upcoming. I think I can say that. There’s an upcoming anthology with Sweatshop and my story is in its first drafts, and it's been extremely well received. So I'm really keen to share. And in that story, there's fish kanji with Red Rock Deli chips with that chilli flavour on top.

Looking back, I do think food features quite prominently in all my stories, and that's because I just really like cooking. I have memories of being in Chatswood library because it closes quite late. I would literally go to Chatswood library after work and then I would read cookbooks, take photos, and then after that I’d feel really awesome and then I'd start writing my pieces. So I think food, besides Sweatshop who I'm so thankful to, is my inspiration—one of my inspirations.

That's really cool and random. I've never heard of someone being like, “Yeah, I read cookbooks for inspiration.” That's really interesting. I love that for you. That kind of stumbles into the next question of what creative project are you considering next? So we've got the upcoming short story, which I'm very glad to hear that you are writing more things. That's great because I do want a novel out of you. Just throwing that out there.

Give me a book deal and I’ll make that happen! [laugh]

Yeah, no, I want to see your writing in a full novel form. I want to see what things, what direction you'll go into. Okay, so short story. Are you working on anything outside of that? Are you a writer who works on multiple projects at once or just one project at a time? 

Historically, it's just one project at a time, but I'm sure I can multitask. I love that you want me to write a novel. Yeah, I've only written short story form and actually some feedback that I sometimes get, perhaps outside of Sweatshop, is that they would like me to write a longer story. I draw on upon so many things. I really want to have the space to unpack that. I think the novel form would really—or novella even—would help me draw out the sadness and the happiness and the funniness of the stories that I write.

I really do want to write a novel but I’m really enjoying the step-by-step processes. A novel isn’t my end goal. Today was my first time reading in front of the public. This is my first ever interview so I’m just enjoying all these awesome, awesome milestones and keen for more.

I'm glad that you can take the time to kind of appreciate these milestones and feel that. And is there anything in your life, like examples, that makes you approach things with this attitude?

Hmm. Could you rephrase that?

Basically, with your approach to these milestones, is it natural to you to take it as it is and appreciate and not look ahead? 

Yeah. Yeah, definitely. I used to study Buddhism at university and so I think it's important to detach ourselves from things we want. I’m definitely not Buddhist, but these are just sort of the philosophies that I've been reading. I just want to be present and enjoy all the moments that come across me. But I'm not Buddhist, I appreciate Buddhists but I couldn’t do it.

Lovely. In our busy day-to-day lives, we can forget to carve out time for our creative side. Do you have a writing routine and how closely do you stick to it? 

Yeah, I have work, I have life. It is really hard to write. I usually write after work or during my lunch break.

But no, I don't have a routine. When I was working on this new upcoming short story, I was with my housemate and he was helping me find the voice for my one of my characters. And so he was doing the can-can, he was making British noises, and he was pretending to have a bowler hat for a whole hour. And I couldn't breathe because it was so funny.

I just love writing with people that I'm very close with, people I love. My housemate, my friends, my sister, Sweatshop. I write best when I'm with people, so whatever the routine, I hope that it lets me appreciate these fun moments with other people.

Okay, that's really lovely. I really like that you don't approach it as a solo endeavour, which is what a lot of writers do.

Your answers have been lovely. Our audience is made up of uni students. With that in mind, could you pitch your short story in a sentence?

Yeah. Uni grad struggles to land a job so resorts to manifestations and the Super Moon event he came across TikTok.

Lovely. Lovely. Good. I've been thinking about that as well, about getting a job after you. Please share some book recommendations. What books would you recommend to read for pleasure? And what books would you read to challenge yourself?

Yeah, I think for pleasure, there’s this cookbook. I can give you the name if you want it.

That would be lovely. 

‘Chinese-ish home cooking’ by Rosheen Kaul. But it's really gorgeous. There's so much illustration, so many really delicious looking photographs. She blends really technical techniques with cheap foods and expensive foods with very simple techniques. I love the blending of high and low culture that she does. She uses techniques and ingredients and inspirations from, it seems like, all across Asia. There's one recipe, Sichuan sausage sanga, and that's just really poetic.

Ohh, that's lovely. I love that for her. 

Yeah. And the challenge I really recommend, Povo. [laugh] In the middle of it—I don't know if you've read it Lychee—but there's high schoolers from Western Sydney. They write really, really, really unfiltered, really raw, really offensive, teenager stuff. It's honestly very confronting. But it's also a guilty pleasure. It's really hilarious. You can't see this literature of writing anywhere except on the back of a bathroom stall. And that's the sort of writing that these kids are doing and I think it's just so funny. Yeah. So I recommend Povo for that.

Is there a standout? Do you remember which one is your favourite? 

Out of the high schoolers? Oh geez. [pause] It was something about like Dory Brain. But look, there's like a penis. I just loved them all, I love the little quips of everything. I think you should read all of it.

I just haven't gotten around to all of them.

Yeah. No, that's totally understandable. But yeah, I don't have a particular favourite and they're all anonymous. Understandably so, cause they’ll definitely get in trouble. But it's so funny. I'm not particularly interested in a particular one.

Okay, there’s one question left. What advice would you give to young writers? 

I would suggest to definitely find people, whether that be a community or your sibling or your friend or someone in your class and sort of just share your writing with each other, develop a real honesty based on mutual trust. The most important part about writing is actually the process. And for me, the process is having fun, learning and learning with others. This is all done in relation to other people. That's the best part of writing.

I love that. That's wonderful.