Deborah Abela’s 2010 novel, Grimsdon, was my uncontested favourite book in Primary School and the first book I ever wrote a book report on. When given the opportunity to interview her ahead of the 2024 Sydney Writers’ Festival, I wasn’t going to turn it down. Grimsdon, the first of a trilogy, featured adventurous characters, sea monsters, and sword fights, everything my 11-year-old self wanted to read about. Abela is an award winning author, with numerous accolades under her belt, including Notables The Children's Book Council of Australia Awards (2023) for The Book of Wonderous Possibilities and Shortlisted REAL Awards (2021) for Final Storm.
In our interview, Abela spoke about her writing process, some of her adventures in Africa that inspired her stories, and her journey to penning her 30th book this year. She also shares crucial advice to aspiring authors, imparting her more than 20 years of writing experience and knowledge.
Date: Sunday, May 26, 2024
Location: Carriageworks
So, I like to start my interviews with this question, how would you you could describe yourself in three words?
Let's see…curious. Energetic, get told that one a lot. Adventurous. There we go!
Oh, that's really fun. So can you tell me a bit about your personal journey to becoming a children's author and what inspired you to write for young readers?
So, I wanted to work in TV. I did a degree at UTS, a communications degree, there. Two years into my degree, I thought, okay, I can leave with a shiny degree at the end, or I can try and get some work on film sets or something, just so that you can leave with the degree and some experience. And I actually got a full time job. I'm working at a production house for adult drama. And I thought, yeah, this is what I want to do. And then I got a job working at Channel 10. In the script department, when they used to have a script department. And then one day, in my office, I kept on seeing this person walking pass with loads of toys, and lollies. And at Easter time, loads of Easter eggs. I'm thinking, what job does she have? So we started chatting, and she said, I've just started a children's show, and I need an assistant producer, would you want to do it? Straightaway I know, that's where I want to be, with kids. And so for seven years, I was the writer and the producer of a kid show called Cheez TV. It used to be on in the mornings on Channel 10. It was while I was there, I started writing my first novel, and then that got signed, and then I left my full time job. I said, I'm gonna give it two years, and if I'm still sort of eating Vegemite sandwiches at the end of two years, I'll reconsider. But that was 22 years ago. And I've been writing ever since. And this year will see my 30th book.
Oh, wow. That's so exciting. So, I had a look at your website and you travelled to Africa and had a bunch of adventures and you were even thrown into jail? Can you tell me a bit more about that and whether they influenced your writing?
That's the question that kids will ask and I'll sort of joke with them and go, you don't want to ask me about my writing, you want to know about my criminal history. And they're like yeah! It was a with bunch of friends of mine. And we got a truck, like an old reconditioned army truck. At the back, there were two big seats, that you could open up and put all your stuff, like sleeping bags. And there were maybe 17 of us. So some friends, some people I hadn't met before. And we travelled from the top of Africa to the bottom. Some people left halfway through or got sick or whatever, has lots of adventures. We got harassed by monkeys, one night sleeping out in the open, who entered and threw sort of sticks and poo at us. And we got robbed, of course, all the time.
Wow, scary!
Yeah. And we got thrown in jail twice. One because they thought we were spies, because we had our cameras out where there were military people present. The other one was just a checkpoint. We took paths through this tiny village and these men in military uniform came out, so we have no idea if they were actually military. And they just sort of stopped us in the middle of this teeny, tiny village and kept us overnight. And just said, you can't pass until we’re happy, so we just basically paid them some money and they let us go. But they threw us a jail overnight that time. Because they said we’d broken some law at the time. Anyway, it was mostly amazing and incredible, and I was like in my early 20s going through Africa. Driving for three weeks through the Sahara desert, that you just thought would never ever end and the stars at night. One time we stopped because we broke an axle, really in the middle of the Sahara desert and we broke an axle, and then we all just went, how do you fix an axle in a truck right now? And from the middle of nowhere, seriously? There are these people called the Tuaregs, the Blue Men of the Sahara Desert. These tall, statuesque, amazing people appeared from nowhere with this camel train, set up a tent, made tea for us on the go, and fixed the axle. I don't know how. It was really lucky.
Would you say those experiences influenced your writing?
Yes. So then I came back to Australia after sort of three years overseas. And I wrote my very first series, which is the Max Remy Super Spy Series. And that's sort of borrowed from all of those adventures. But she's a young kids spy.
Oh, that's so cool. So, your books usually feature adventurous and brave protagonists and they solve challenges. So why are these themes important to you? And why do you want to share them with your readers?
I think it's fun, because I write both. In fact, I often write an adventure story and then I write a story set in a school, or a set in a country town. So I kind of flick between the two. I think kids love the idea of adventure, they love the idea of that impossible thing. That they might fly on the back of a sky mouse, or they might see a dragon, or they might come across a magical book. I think kids love to see themselves as having huge potential and being brave, and many of my characters start off feeling timid. Like the last person you would choose, either on your sports team or with a death defying mission. And my aim, I think, in all of my books is to sort of put
them in really dire situations. So they can prove, actually, they can do it. And I think, subtly, or maybe not, that's kind of my message to kids. You can do this, you've got this. It might be messy, and bumpy, and you might get bruised along the way because life's not perfect. But you jump in, boots and all, and you've got this.
That's such a nice message. So can you tell me a bit about your writing process, how you develop characters and plots?
So that's a mess. That one of the most important things I do is I'm in a critique group. So four years ago, I called a really good friend of mine, who I really, really like. And I really like his work and we've known each other for decades. I said, I need once a month to get together with people online, and just literally show each other our work and critique it. And so we've been doing that for four years, and once a month we meet and there's five of us all together. I think that has helped me because I'll get stuck, or I'll think, well, I'm going to write this story, but it hasn't got that spark yet, the thing that's gonna make it sort of rise above other books. And they'll go, what about this? And what about that? And then after a brainstorming session, I'll go yeah, I've got this, and then off I go. So I do come up with my characters, my setting, my plot first. Why this story? Why this, why should this story take up shelf space, when there are so many other, particularly middle grade, brilliant books out there? So what is it that makes my book special? Why should anyone read it? I'm constantly, as I'm writing, asking those questions. I do plan first. But I deviate from that too. Oh, my gosh, that’s a much better idea. And I tend to plan, like I'll do a chapter break down even so. This happens in chapter one, this happens chapter two. This happens to make sure that the story has the three act structure and is constantly climbing towards the climax. So, I can work on a book for three months before writing chapter one. And of course, any research that needs to happen. If I'm setting it in an old, bookish town, I'll get lots of photographs, characters, definitely. Once I've got an idea of who they are, then I'll definitely look up online, some photographs. Then I have a big file that I use, a programme called Scrivener. In Scrivener, you can write in the main page and all down the side it’s like a filing cabinet of research, characters, pictures, chapters. Anything to do with that, so it's all in one document. Yeah, it's really so good. But it's mostly messy.
Most of your works are aimed at the middle grade audience. So how do you think it's different writing for them than younger or older kids?
I tried writing for younger and I have a few picture books, but I've tried reading junior fiction too, which is like that six to eight age group. It's really hard because I want to add B plots and C plots. I want to end a chapter in one location, and then you go to another location to build suspense. You can't do that in junior fiction, it has to be like a straight through line, no B plot, or sequence. And so you have to kind of pare it right back. So, I feel like middle grades, you can play more. There's many more avenues to put red herrings in and I love that audience. They're not teens yet, but they're not little kids. They've very much got their own ideas, and their own sense of justice and moral compass and I like exploring that. That character does that terrible thing, because they want a good outcome. Is that, okay? You know, that sort of ethical question. In junior fiction, you can't really do that. They just want a really lovely story. But middle grade is where I really love to be. And I think I am my 11 year-old-self. Because you often hear that kid writers often have an age that they are, and some people are five, some people are 14, I'm absolutely 11. You don't have the stress of being a teen yet, and certainly not an adult. You're old enough now, you got your own opinions, people are treating you a little bit older and being more independent. It was just one of my favourite years to be.
Research is a very important part of your work, as you have mentioned before. So do you have a process for research? Is it hands on?
It can be. So one of my books is a historical fiction, based on my dad's story of being born in a cave in Malta during World War Two, during a bombing raid. And that one I did loads of research, lots a film reels. So there wasn't any Telly news, during World War Two, certainly not in Malta. You went to the cinema, and then you saw like a news reel. And they were there. All of those are incredible. So I did lots of watching of that. Lots of reading and books. But I did lots of interviews with Maltese people who were young at the time and remember the war. So with all of my books, there’s always a little bit of research involved. Like in the Grimsdon series, I needed to research flying machines and flood barriers, and what you could do to survive living in a flooded city. How do you get clean water? How do you stay warm in Winter? Most of my books, they do have research in it. I often stop, if I'm about to write something and I realise I don't know enough about that topic. I'll stop and before I dive in.
What are some of the biggest challenges you've had to face in your career? And how did you overcome them?
One of the biggest challenges now is, sometimes knowing what to write next. And I'm not someone who tries to follow a trend. Because by the time you follow it, it's probably gone, and it doesn't make any sense. The only thing I can do is write what I feel strongly about at that time. So for Grimsdon, it was climate change. The Kindness Project, my latest book, is about seeing people beyond their behaviour, and kindness, and understanding that maybe that person who's not behaving very well has something going on in their life, but we don't know it yet. Because we don't know them, right? And that sometimes we can make opinions about people based on seeing them. But if we get to know them, we'll realise they're a completely different person.
So, one of the biggest difficulties, I think is, will that thing I'm passionate about resonate with other people? All you can do is trust your instinct. I've been writing for over 20 years. My publisher as well, of course, will say yes or no to it and give me a hint. But other than that, the process is really different for each book. The Kindness Project wrote itself fairly easily, even though it's a verse novel, and I've never done a verse novel before. Grimsdon was the hardest book to write, because I had no idea how you’d live in a flooded city. So books that seem really easy, often are the hardest ones. Except The Kindness Project kind of wrote itself once I knew what the story was. That’s rare for me, very rare.
What's been your proudest achievement?
Well, I've just spent three weeks on the road, launching The Kindness Project in Sydney, the ACT and Brissie, when a kid comes up to me and says, I didn't like reading until I read your book. Nothing comes close to that. I had a mum last week come up to me at a launch and she was in tears. She said, I have this really reluctant reader, no matter what I tried, what book I gave her, and we came to the shop, and she saw your Book of Wondrous Possibilities, and really liked the cover, and then she read it. And she's now reading now! So this mum is crying, saying thank you, thank you, thank you! You don't know how much I've desperately… [sic]. You know, there's awards, and there's lovely accolades and stuff. But nothing beats that ever, ever hands down.
That’s beautiful. So who would you say are your biggest inspirations, literary or otherwise?
I think regular people more than big, famous superhero people. My year four teacher Miss Grey, she was the very first person to say, I think you're going to be an author one day. I was a girl from the Western Suburbs of Sydney. In the 70s, where nothing much was expected of girls, you would just grow up, probably leave school early, get married, have a family. Honestly, nothing else was expected of us. And I was from a migrant background. So really nothing was expected of me. And I think because of that I went “nu-uh, not happening”.
But when I was in grade four, I didn't have the, you know, I was only like eight or nine. So I thought, well, how do I make this happen? And I thought, well, I'll just keep doing it. And the fact that this hero teacher of mine believed in me, I just kept it. I just kind of kept that really close to me and thought, well, if she thinks it's possible, maybe it can happen, you know. And I've since seen her, I've reached out and seen her. I wrote to her and said, “you know, you won't remember me. I was in your very first class in ‘84. But I became an author because of you. And I just need to say thank you”. I'm trying to do that more in my life, to reach back to people who made a big difference and say thank you. She refuses to say it’s her. She just went oh, no, I was just being a regular teacher. I'm like, no, you don’t understand! So just moments like that can change someone's life. Just a few words from a hero and that was enough for me to think maybe it's possible.
So do you have any advice you would give other aspiring authors?
You write with your heart, I think. Don't try and preach, or teach a message. But often there will be something that fires that book, what you mostly want is to engage that audience. And then below that will be the stuff that fires you up. So just practice and practice and practice. Just write and write and write, don't listen to that silly voice in your head that tells you you're no good, because it doesn't go away. It's still loud and strong after 30 books, in my head, you know, so just, you might as well get used to ignoring it early on, because it is going to stick around.
And read in your area. I get surprised sometimes when people don't read in their area. I mostly read middle grade books. Every now and then I read an adult book. But mostly when I'm on holidays, actually. So when I'm in my regular home life, I mostly read middle grade. And I think you have to know what else is out there. I think you have to know how good it can be, how good you have to be to sit on that shelf, strongly, alongside those other books. Because middle grade is on fire, locally and also internationally. Middle grade is just incredible. It's some of the best writing. Also, you need to know what's out there so you're not writing something that's already out there, that’s already been done.
So I think they'd be my big tips. And join a group. Get some writing buddies, test out your stuff on other writers. I do test it out on kids too. So when I've done a first draft, I pick some bookish kids, like readerly kids, and I'll ask them to read it and they give me their honest opinion. Which is why you ask, because kids are very honest.
What are you reading right now?
It's called A Swim in the Pond in the Rain by George Saunders. It's a book on writing. Because every now and then, I will do that. In fact, I've got a couple lying around the house that I dip in and dip out of. He’s a brilliant writer and lecturer, George Saunders, who teaches a bunch of Russian short stories. And he takes them apart. And so this book, he gives us each of the stories and then he dissects them and he takes it apart. It's such a really good deep dive into what we do as authors based on these Russian masters. It's really it's well written, it's very conversational. So it is kind of a lecture, but it is really accessible and really fun. He's got a really cheeky sense of humour too. So yeah, that's what I'm reading. I also just finished Nova Weetman’s new book, Love, Death & Other Scenes, which was amazing. It's a nonfiction.
So what do you enjoy most about being a writer? What keeps you motivated to always write?
I like when it works. When you're like, “oh, I can't make this thing work”. And then suddenly it does. I love kid visits. I realised during COVID, when everything fell over. And I had a whole year of school visits lined up, here and overseas, and it all stopped. Initially I thought I'll just write and that's okay, because I'll just focus. But then as lockdown, of course, continued, I thought, no, I need the interaction of librarians, authors, kids, teachers. I need that interaction and that flow of ideas. That's partly why I formed the critique group called the Uber Talented Critique Group, very humble! And we have a podcast as well called “Five Writers Five Minutes”. We take the main thing that we were talking about during that critique meeting, and we sort of dissect it a little bit. It's never five minutes, it’s always more like seven or eight or nine. But that has been amazing.
And meeting teacher librarians. Some of the best people in the world. They're so fun and they're so passionate. Because it’s not well paid enough to be there, just because you think you'll be rich, you know what I mean. It’s like with teachers, you are there because you truly, truly believe in what you're doing. And teacher librarians are just, they know if they can hook a kid onto reading, it will change their life. And they don't give up and they're amazing.
Anyway, so it’s that connection, which is also why we write, isn't it? I mostly write books so it connects to a reader, and they laugh, or they cry, or they gasp. So yeah, for me, it's all about connection. And the more that I can connect with readers, and then connect with my buddies, my writing buddies and teacher librarians, then life's good.
Do you have any upcoming projects or goals that you're excited about?
I do! I’m working on finishing a picture book, and also a new novel. And it's been a bit badly behaved at the moment. But that's okay. I'm just going to keep working on it. And I've just pitched it to my publisher, so we'll see if she says yes or no to it.
Fingers crossed! What are you most excited about at the Sydney Writers’ Festival? You've got your session later today.
I just love the idea that people are here on this beautiful sunny day, and it's all because of books. Because they literally bring us together and they connect us. And it's just fun. It's just
lovely. Because everyone's kind of got it. You know, when I meet a kid, and I know how important books are. It's like you have this mutual language, and you know how special it is. And there’s a whole Carriageworks of people out there who all think the same thing.
Amazing. That was all the questions I had.
Beautiful. Thank you so much.
If I told my childhood self I got to interview Deborah Abela, she would be awestruck. For good reason, as Abela’s insights into writing, her exciting stories and advice, are invaluable. When kids read about brave and resilient protagonists, they themselves are inspired to be fearless. When they read messages of hope, for example, the hope for the fight against climate change in the Grimsdon Trilogy, they in turn, believe they too can enact change. Books shape us and connect people together. Children need books that teach them they are capable and strong, just like the characters they read about in fiction. We need authors like Abela to teach our children to be brave enough to face the future ahead.
